30 thoughts on “You're Playing Bach Wrong | เนื้อหาทั้งหมดที่เกี่ยวข้องกับthai restaurant logo flat vector designที่ถูกต้องที่สุด

  1. 12tone says:

    Get 26% off CuriosityStream and a free Nebula account: http://www.curiositystream.com/12tone and use promo code "12tone"

    Some additional thoughts/corrections:

    1) First and foremost, I'd like to formalize apologize to the Jabberjaw fans out there. I'm sure at least some of you exist.

    2) Will the xenharmonic crowd get mad at me for calling just intonation "a popular idea in Baroque-era European music"? Yeah, probably. Am I ok with that? Also yeah, probably.

    3) If you're wondering why my list of primary intervals didn't include the perfect 4th, it's because you can build its ratio, 3:4, by going up an octave, then down a perfect 5th, so a system that has those two intervals gets the 4th for free. We don't have to worry about it separately. Likewise, the minor 3rd, or 5:6, can be built by going up a perfect 5th, then down a major 3rd, so we don't need to include it either.

    4) Werckmeister tunings are actually numbered in two different ways. I went with the easier one, but you may find the thing I called Werckmeister I referred to as Werckmeister III and the thing I called Werckmeister III as Werckmeister V. It's kind of a mess, sorry about that, historical tuning systems are complicated.

    5) If the major 3rd that I said was really sharp didn't sound bad to you, don't worry, your ears aren't broken, it's just that equal temperament also uses a fairly sharp major 3rd, so you're already used to it. To someone more familiar with meantone, though, it would've sounded pretty out of tune.

    6) One thing I couldn't really fit in the flow of the script is that the most common meantone tuning shrinks all its fifths by 1/4th of a pythagorean comma, so in the loop doodle system, even the flattest 5ths are wider than many listeners would be used to. (And, as such, all the 3rds are slightly sharp as well, although some more than others.)

    7) Bach was known to enjoy cryptograms and puzzles, so it is possible that the doodles were meaningful and he just chose not to tell his students about it, but a) Lehman's historical theory relies on the idea that the doodle was a known teaching aid, and b) if wasn't communicating his intent then he was likely prepared for the possibility that people wouldn't follow it.

    8) One of the most interesting approaches I've seen on this is going through the entire Clavier and counting which specific major 3rds he uses most often. According to the sources I've found, there do appear to be biases toward certain ones across keys, which implies his tuning system likely made those 3rds sound particularly good, but I couldn't find any straight-up list to examine myself so I'm not entirely sure which ones.

  2. Elizabeth Pemberton says:

    That’s nothing compared to trying to SING Bach right, even with default imitation (via learning with a piano) of equal temperament. Such gorgeous arias, such vocal difficulty…

  3. Tory Davis says:

    My take on this, given Bach's affinity for leaving some 'exercises for the reader' in his compositions, is that the title 'well-tempered clavier' was meant as a challenge. If your clavier can play this and sound good, it is well-tempered.

  4. Ricardo Marlow says:

    Bach did leave evidence…he told students he tunes ALL THE THIRDS SHARP…and he could tune in 15 minutes as your quote says. It is pretty much “equal” tempered to him obviously. Anything else, no matter how you argue, would render some piece slightly different if transposed told another key. His choice to mess with peoples keyboard designs was Ab major. I think it is too obvious he meant ET even if not explicitly stated. All other temperaments are you typical nonsense that still goes on “yuck yuck, I tune to a D chord, its the perfect guitar tuning!!!” LOL. So maybe we play Bach wrong….or maybe we play it exactly right.

  5. J R says:

    No evidence bach would've minded his music on the piano… bach first saw a prototype pianoforte in 1720 and hated it. Thought it was joke. He was close to silbermann, an organ builder who started building recreations of cristoforis. Bach actually became a sells agent for pianofortes in 1740 but still disapproved

  6. Lester Brunt says:

    Well I think you can say that even in equal temperament keys have different characters. there is a cutoff point on the bottom and top of the audible register. The lowest possible D will sound different than a G. The lowest D on a piano still sounds acceptable but the G below that is almost indistinguishable because it is on the limit of perception. So the lowest G is a fourth above the lowest D which makes it give a different character. And similarly for the highest registers.

  7. Bob Rogers says:

    important details:

    1) The "doodles" were likely drawn after the title page was written, because they intrude on the text.

    2) One of the loops has a "C" written next to it.

  8. Cyril Roger says:

    Just a thought now
    Assuming Bach’s music is as deeply thought of as we usually paint it in our minds, wouldn’t it be possible to find clues of which temperament he intended to use by an even deeper analysis of the music itself ?
    Any musical analyst interested in this challenge ? Hint: not me, that would be way above my own analysis level…

  9. idcook says:

    Interesting.
    However, I felt a pang of disappointment when no approximation of the possibilities suggested were, in fact, played.

    Go ahead, screw up a piano for a day and let’s hear a one or a few versions of what the man’s music 'might have' sounded like back then!

  10. Matt Price says:

    Perhaps Bach didn't have a specific temperament in mind but composed these pieces as a way of testing or choosing different tunings. Playing through all the keys in major and minor would certainly expose any shortcomings of the tuning of your instrument. If you could play the entire collection with no obvious discordant intervals then your tuning, whatever it might be, could be considered "well tempered." Of course I have no historical evidence for that, just where my train of thought took me.

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